Transcript: Tesla Robotaxi Launch, OpenAI & Foxconn, Waymo’s Future

Executive Summary

This week’s episode of Autonomy Markets covers Tesla’s official launch of Robotaxi service in Austin, sparking intense debate over its performance compared to Waymo. Grayson and Walter break down the initial rollout, the varied reactions, and Tesla’s safety strategy. 

Meanwhile, Waymo continues its expansion in Atlanta and weighs its long-term strategy, and breaking news reveals Foxconn’s partnership with Electro-Bit could position it as a major robotaxi manufacturer, potentially bringing tech giants like OpenAI and Apple into the automotive space.

Key Topics & Timestamps

[00:00] Tesla officially launches Robotaxi service in Austin 

Tesla has launched its Robotaxi service on the public roads of Austin, Texas. The service is being offered at a flat rate of $4.20, regardless of the distance or time of the ride. The launch marks Tesla’s official entry into the robotaxi market.

[01:05] Initial reactions and coverage of the Tesla Robotaxi launch 

Initial coverage of the launch has been polarized, with some reactions being overly positive (“gushing”) and others extremely negative. One host believes there has been no truly honest, middle-ground coverage yet. On the first day, some initial glitches were reported, including one video of a car struggling to make a left turn, which caused Uber’s stock to rise.

[03:30] Debating Tesla’s safety measures, including the in-car attendant and remote drivers 

Tesla’s Robotaxis are operating with a person in the front passenger seat. This is seen as a safety measure to prevent “bad actors” from causing trouble and as evidence of Tesla’s “culture of safety”. There is also a strong belief that each vehicle has a remote human driver with a steering wheel on a one-to-one ratio.

[06:15] Comparing the technological progress and cost structures of Tesla vs. Waymo 

While Waymo is considered to be ahead of Tesla technologically today, it is argued that the pace of development is accelerating due to AI and simulations, so the gap may not be as wide as some believe. From an economic standpoint, Tesla’s Model Y is currently cheaper than Waymo’s vehicle, but Waymo’s vehicle costs are expected to decrease over time through partnerships like the one with Hyundai. One company needs to lower its cost structure, while the other needs to improve its car’s performance.

[11:00] The role of remote assistance in both Tesla’s and Waymo’s operations

It is strongly believed that Tesla is using a one-to-one ratio of remote drivers to vehicles, with the remote operator having a steering wheel. Waymo also uses remote assistance, but not just when a car gets stuck; a remote operator can make adjustments during a ride via a pull-down menu, sometimes without the passenger even noticing. It’s unclear what the ratio of remote assistants to vehicles is for Waymo, as Google does not report this data.

[15:45] Will NHTSA intervene based on initial performance glitches? 

It is firmly believed that, based on the current state of operations, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) will not shut down Tesla’s Robotaxi service. NHTSA is described as a great organization focused on making roads safer, and it maintains a direct line of communication with all robotaxi manufacturers, though the details of these conversations are not public.

[18:30] Projecting the next six months of Tesla’s Robotaxi expansion 

A detailed projection suggests Tesla could expand its Austin fleet from 12 vehicles to around 22-23 by mid-July. By October, the service could expand to downtown Austin, and by the end of the year, it could include airport pickups, significantly expanding the operational design domain (ODD).

[24:30] Waymo launches for everyone in Atlanta; discussing its expansion strategy 

Waymo’s service in Atlanta is now open to everyone. The current ODD covers 65 square miles but does not yet include highways or airports. Gaining access to airports is a major revenue opportunity, and it’s suggested Waymo could lean on its partner Uber’s policy experience to navigate the regulatory hurdles involved.

[29:00] What is happening with the Waymo and Lyft partnership? 

The status of the Waymo-Lyft partnership is unclear. A Lyft executive, when recently asked about Waymo on a podcast, reportedly avoided answering the question directly. This avoidance of the topic by Lyft executives suggests the partnership may not be in a “very good place right now”.

[31:30] Could Waymo pivot to a licensing-only business model? 

A hypothetical scenario was proposed where Waymo’s current robotaxi expansion is primarily to perfect the Waymo Driver technology, after which it could pivot to a full licensing business. In this scenario, Waymo might even sell its robotaxi operations to a company like Uber and focus solely on licensing its autonomous driving stack.

[33:50] Breaking News: Travis Kalanick and Uber reportedly looking to acquire Pony.ai’s US operations

According to a New York Times report, former Uber CEO Travis Kalanick is looking to acquire the U.S. operations of Pony.ai, with financial backing from Uber. This move is seen as incredible, given Kalanick’s history with Uber, and would bring him back into the mobility space. Pony.ai develops technology for both cars and trucks.

[36:30] Breaking News: Foxconn partners with Electro-Bit, opening the door for Big Tech to enter autonomy

Foxconn has announced a partnership with Electro-Bit, a subsidiary of Continental, to build a complete electric vehicle platform, including hardware and software. This could position Foxconn as a robotaxi contract manufacturer, potentially enabling deep-pocketed tech companies like OpenAI, Nvidia, Meta, and Apple to enter the autonomous vehicle market by removing the hardware barrier.

[40:30] Is the industry shifting from AV 1.0 (maps) to AV 2.0 (mapless)?

There’s a growing argument that the industry is seeing a technological shift. “AV 1.0” is described as reliant on pre-built HD maps, an approach used by companies like Waymo and Aurora. “AV 2.0” is defined by a mapless approach, used by companies like Tesla, Wayve, and Kodiak. It is argued that this shift is causing the technological advantage of incumbent leaders to disappear.

[45:15] The growing market for autonomous delivery bots like Serve Robotics 

The market for specialized autonomous delivery robots is growing. Serve Robotics, an Uber partner, recently announced an expansion to Atlanta in partnership with Uber Eats and Shake Shack. This market is seen as beneficial for services like Uber Eats by lowering costs and improving delivery reliability.

[47:30] Where does Volkswagen stand in the race to autonomy? 

Volkswagen is considered to be behind in the autonomy race. While they showcased an ID Buzz vehicle based on the MOIA platform, it was not a new reveal and relies on a sensor suite of 13 cameras, 9 lidars, and 5 radars. These vehicles will be delivered to Uber in California and will begin testing in 2026 with safety drivers, with no public timeline for a fully driverless commercial launch.

Watch the Full Episode of Autonomy Markets

Full Episode Transcript

Grayson Brulte: Walt, it’s alive. It happened. Tesla launched Robotaxii. On the public roads in Austin for a very cute and cheeky fair of $4 and 20 cents. No matter the distance, no matter the time, it’s still $4 and 20 cents. The autonomy markets are heating up. But the last two weeks have been a tremendous two weeks for both Waymo and Tesla. And now Tesla has officially entered the Robotaxi markets. Talk about timing, Walt. We couldn’t have picked a better time than now to launch autonomy markets. We’re cruising, we’re getting feedback. We’re incorporating that feedback into our show every week. So please keep it coming. But Walt, let’s start with Tesla. June 22nd, Austin, it happened. It’s real. What are your thoughts on the launch of Robotaxi? 

Walter Piecyk: I mean, they, they hit this milestone. I, I could, and we’re seeing evidence is, I think we talked about last week, plenty of videos on X and YouTube. I have to say, I could do without the, the, some of the gushing. , Coverage it so far. I mean, it kind of reminds me of, of this piece that we do for Lightshed great quarter guys, great quarter guys. Like, relax, like give yourself a measured view. I’m not sure how you can claim a ride in these Teslas is better than Waymo. That’s just, it’s silly hyperbole. It’s not productive when you’re trying to build up expectations as a broader public gets into these cars. Waymo feels like a great ride. It’s, it’s, that’s why it’s, I think it should price as a premium service and that’s how Tesla feels. You know, when we, when we were out in California last week doing the, the, some of these, um, driver or driver in Robotaxi test. Of course, yeah. And I said at the time, on the past podcast, it feels like way more, at some point there’s a diminishing marginal return. How can it feel incrementally better, but I digress. It’s fine. And obviously we look forward to getting to Austin, uh, and testing it ourselves and hopefully, you know, give, give a better kind of sense of, and a more balanced, I guess sense of, of kind of what’s going on there. , You know, there was. As I think many people should have expected, , some initial glitches that, that were there. And, and on the very first day of the launch, um, you know, Uber stock was up or a day after, I guess 8%, whatever the number was, because there was one video specifically that many people were focused on where the car was trying to make a left turn. You know, I’ve seen certainly plenty of videos of, of, um, Waymo’s doing the same type of thing in earlier year years, not to like take away from not to do like a what about is or take away from the fact that that should be, that should be called out. But I think, you know, it just kind of underscores the focus that Tesla goes on. So, on one hand I’m going to chide, um, you know, some of the initial coverage as being too gushing. And on the other hand, like I’m gonna chide those that are like overly focused on, you know, some initial glitches on day one. Where this product is. What were your thoughts on, on some of these early videos? 

Grayson Brulte: There was no middle ground in any of the coverage. It was, it was one extreme. It’s the greatest thing since live bread and the other extreme. It’s the worst thing since the invention of time. It’s just there was, there was no middle ground. Why I’m looking forward one day to getting in the vehicle for our listeners and viewers and giving a honest down the middle opinion because I don’t feel that there’s been any true, honest coverage yet.

Walter Piecyk: I mean, with that said, like there are raw videos. You can basically turn off the sound right and look at the videos. Certainly some could be edited. , But the bottom line is you have a car that’s generating revenue and there’s no one in, in, in the driver’s seat. , I mean, there’s still some online debate about, you know, the person in the car as well as kind of who’s. Sitting back, you know, in the network and, and in terms of the safety driver or the remote safety driver that exists and, and specifically, you know, Phil Koopman, who I think has generally been, you know, critical. I actually had a comment on his post ’cause he’s giving all these like basically bias negative reasons on why that driver’s there. Leaving out one that I think we addressed last week, which is having someone in that passenger seat because of the scrutiny of Tesla and Elon and what crazy things, you know, some bad actors, uh, you know, might, might play. And I think at least Phil, um, acknowledged my comment and said, yeah, that’s obviously could be one additional one that added some like word salad after that that I didn’t quite understand. But I mean, I think, you know, that person in, in the passenger seat obviously can, is acts as greater safety and, and it also underscores I think the culture of safety views that I’ve expressed on this podcast where I think that I. People are overly negative about where they think Tesla’s culture of safety is. And I think putting someone in that passenger seat just shows that they do have a culture of safety right at this stage, um, in their rollout.

Grayson Brulte: Listen, no matter any which way you slice it, dice it, cut it. It’s a monumental move. There was not a human. Behind the steering wheel. Optimus, the robot was not behind the steering wheel. The technology works. Learning to walk is hard. Learning to have a car to drive itself is hard. But what we’ve seen from all of the videos, despite all that’s called the chattering class on both sides, and then they, you, Mr. Koopman, Mr. Negative, it works. It’s a product that works and it’s going to scale. You said, rightly said, when Waymo launched, there was a lot of issues in initially when Cruise launched. There was a lot of issues initially what happened, just same as a child. They grew out of that and Tesla’s going to do the same thing. But having that individual in there, yes, because you’re gonna get a lunatic that would try and do something. I’ll say it bluntly stupid just to get on the headlines, because as any individual that works in the media business will tell you, Tesla headlines sell ad dollars. And so you have to take that account into it, that these people, they’re, they’re putting these bombastic headlines out there to sell ad dollars. At the end of the day, that’s truly what it’s coming down to.

Walter Piecyk: Grayson, you bring up I think, an important point in terms of Waymo, you know, having some of these issues in the early days, what, what Waymo supporters would tell, tell you is like, okay, that happened five years ago and that underscored why Tesla is five years behind. And I think, look, I get it. That that did that, they did do that years ago. But that, that just assumes that the pace of change is the same. And I think Waymo themselves has effectively acknowledged that the pace of development, um, is now faster at, at Google io, uh, which I attended to see Dimitri speak, and they kind of talked about this and using simulations and using ai, and, and they had that white paper that came out at the end of, of last year that, that we’ve discussed on autonomy markets that is, is a new technology and they’re leveraging AI to move quickly forward. So, yeah, I mean, Waymo is ahead today. The question is how do you define that length of time of where Tesla can get there? And I, I think the mo more important thing is like when you get to that point, like it’s not like Waymo is a profitable company with, you know, cars at scale with a low cost. In the time it’s gonna take Tesla to have their cars perform, you know, like Waymo is performing today. You know, where will the cost structure of these two companies be in terms of, you know, the cost per mile and the underlying, um, car cost there? 

Grayson Brulte: From an economic standpoint, based on what we know of publicly available data, the cost of the model y versus multiple analyst reports the cost of the Waymo vehicle. Tesla will be ahead there. But the thing that, that, that harps on me in your Euro, a European football fan and let’s, it’s football, it’s not, you know, we have American football, we have European football. It seems to me that the Waymo fans are, are one football club and the Tesla fans are another football club, and they get it in this heated rivalry where there is no middle ground to really understand this. So I’ve, I’ve thought a lot about this and I’m gonna ask you this. When Tesla publicly reports Robotaxi revenue, at some point they’re gonna report it. I believe that they’ll break it out and they’ll report it. Does that force alphabet’s hand to, to, to break out that revenue at that point? Because the market, and then do we, does that become the, the measuring stick, not the technology, but the revenue? 

Walter Piecyk: I don’t think they’re gonna have material enough revenue. Certainly not this year. Probably not even in 2026 or 2027 for them to break that out. So I don’t think that that’s a near term assessment. And, and I will, I wanna push back on what you just said, which is like, oh, the why is cheaper, you know, but I’m, I’m talking about like, not today, Grayson. I’m saying whenever Tesla gets to Waymo, um, in terms of functionality, let’s assume that’s 18 months just making up a timeframe. So don’t come at me if you’re Tesla and you think it’s six and don’t come at me if you’re Waymo, if you think it’s three years from now, the question is where will Waymo’s cost structure be then? So you can’t just assume that just ’cause they’re spending whatever the number is, 150 grand. Again, don’t know the number, but probably in the same, in the ballpark that within 18 months or three years, whether it’s the Hyundai deal or new OEM relationship, that they’re announced that they will also drive the cost of those of those vehicles down. So I think it’s a good debate between these two companies. One needs to get the cost structure down, the other one needs to get, I think, you know, better performance in terms of their car and just expansion, you know, in, in the network.

Grayson Brulte: The Hyundai deal is gonna be very interesting. I’m very bullish on that. For Waymo’s perspective is that ramps up in scale? And you’re right, the costs are going to come down. The one thing that we, you and I can both agree on, not all of our viewers can agree on, but you and I can agree on that. Tesla and Waymo are the two leading companies in the development of Robotaxis today.

Walter Piecyk: Sure, but, and we’ll get to this later, but I think there is a market out there, whether it’s Nuro or Wayve or May Mobility, that if I’m gonna say that, you know, with the new technologies that maybe the gap is not between Tesla and Waymo is not five years. Then that also applies to Wayve and May Mobility, Nuro and others, that are also developing the technology. We are open, you know, to seeing, because I, I do, I mean I’ve done technology for a long time. I can see how, you know, the leading company is not necessarily the winning company and I. Timeframes that have been expressed are not exactly, and the same applies to Aurora in on the trucking side of things, where there’s a view that they’re, they are years ahead. I, I want to go back though to this, this safety driver or the remote driver. ’cause this seems to be an area, Phil Koopman gets a lot of, a lot of kind of attention and he’s like speculating, like, oh, I don’t know. Is there a safety driver? I think I see a wheel back there. But I mean, if you had any of our listeners of autonomy markets, no. From however many episodes, four or five episodes ago, yes, there is a, there is a remote driver with a steering wheel and it’s a one-to-one ratio that is my strong, you know, view that that is how it’s going. And there’s been additional evidence of that. I don’t think there’s been any hiding from Tesla’s standpoint about that being the, the, you know, the case. And that’s not some big scandal. Like yeah, it’s clear that Waymo doesn’t have one-to-one scaling. They’ve got, you know, people that, you know, interact. I think the view on Waymo, however, is that it’s only when this car gets stuck that some, you know, remote assistance person draws a line to get them out of there. No, I don’t think that is not the system. I have a con, I’ve had a conversation, you know, at Google io with someone way more specifically where they’re talking about how you can be in the middle of a ride. They see something that maybe the autonomy or the autonomous system doesn’t know what to do. A re a remote assistance person gets a pull down menu, makes an adjustment. It’s possible that when you’re in that car, there’s been, you know, someone that’s, that’s a human that’s taken an action that you never even feel, you know? So there’s been those, those situations. I don’t know. And by the way, you know why we don’t know because Google doesn’t report this. So when, so when there’s these discussions about. How far one company is a, a front of and or behind provide us the data. Like, you know, those that are, that are supporting that, that Waymo’s uh, so far ahead. What is the ratio of these remote assistance people, humans to, um, you know, to the number of Waymo cars on the road? What are the interventions that they’re doing as I’ve just described them, what are those per mile like, provide this data because, you know, when you’re shooting against a ghost where you don’t actually have reported data. I think that’s, I think that’s a bit, um, I think that’s a bit unfair. No question Waymo’s ahead, but let’s get some sense. And then the view obviously is like, clearly Tesla, you know, is not going to scale until they move to the next step. So, we’ll, you know, and we’ll keep an eye on that in terms of, you know, when Tesla changes those, those remote safety drivers.

Grayson Brulte: The fact that Tesla launched without a driver in the driver’s seat is a monumental moment. The next step, before we even get to safety remote safety drivers, when they remove the, if you wanna call it the, the safety attendant, that’s gonna be an interesting move that’s gonna tell me that they’re very, very confident in the current state of the technology.

Walter Piecyk: A hundred percent all of these things, these, you know, which are currently criticisms, then become positive catalyst. Attendance out, you know, we get indication that the safety driver is one to three, you know, meaning that, I’m sorry, the remote driver, we have to get our terms on it. We get to come up with better terms for this remote driver is one to three, remote driver no longer has a wheel. And it goes to kind of the early Waymo days when you’re driving, you know, when you’re drawing a line. Like these are all going to be steps along. But look, from an investor standpoint. Perhaps this gives a little bit more reality check in terms of like how Tesla rolls out. Again, if you’re a regular listen to autonomy markets, you know, our view is not that there’s gonna be some, you know, switch that gets flipped and all of a sudden every model y all across the world is gonna be autonomous in 2025 or, or even in, in parts of 2026. Right. We talked about how markets will launch, you know, perhaps in clusters if there’s similar markets, but this will be a methodical in our view, you know, approach to how, uh, Tesla continues to expand in the, in the market.

Grayson Brulte: And the other thing that our listeners of viewers need to watch for watch for the amount of Tesla insurance licenses that they start getting granted at the state level. They’re around 30 states right now, so they’re gonna need to opera, have Tesla insurance to be able to operate that. So watch that. That’s another indicator to start adding more and more states to Tesla insurance.

Walter Piecyk: Let’s go back to. The incident, you know, if you call it an incident, right? The way it’s been hyped, it’s like, you know, it’s like someone got hit or a car got hit where, you know, you saw that that wheel shake, which I’m familiar with, I’ve had that happen and, you know, with, with my Tesla, , you know, it, and then there was an article about that and it was more comically about driving 34 in a 30 mile an hour, um, area. Like, okay. If that’s the case, I’ll just, I’ll start taking videos of my Uber drivers bottom line though. Uh, Grayson all that really matters here is, is NHTSA actually gonna do anything to shut this down based on that quote unquote investigation. Like, what is your view on NHTSA’s role, um, from the, you know, what, what has happened in this first week? 

Grayson Brulte: Point blank. NHTSA will not shut down. Robotaxi NHTSA will not shut down. Robotaxi.

Walter Piecyk: I mean, well, let me again push back on that. If Tesla rolls over somebody like blows through a red light and rolls over somebody, they’re gonna shut down Roboto taxi. I’m not saying that that’s gonna happen, but my question is has, from what has happened so far, you’re saying NHTSA won’t, uh, shut down Robotaxii, but to state that they’re never gonna shut them down, obviously you can’t know. You know, and that just assumes that there’s not gonna be some type of tragic accident.

Grayson Brulte: at the current state of the way, Tesla’s operating NHTSA will not shut them down. No. And I stand by that.

Walter Piecyk: Okay, that’s fine. I just want, I just want you to clarify that. ’cause when you make, I, I appreciate your, the simplicity in your first answer, but obviously, like, you know that all, some people are gonna read that as like, oh, that means Tesla can do whatever they want. And like NHTSA’s never gonna do anything. And I don’t think that is certainly the role that NHTSA will play.

Grayson Brulte: No, I, no, and I want a hammer on that because you’re right. We’re the bows and arrows are gonna come out NHTSA Is a great organization. NHTSA is an organization and a governmental entity that saves lives, that prioritizes safety. NHTSA has had some fantastic administrators over the years that they care about one thing and it’s making our roads safer. It’s a, it’s a great organization. Does it need to innovate and speed up? Yes, but it’s a great organization that, that it has the clear mission of making our roads safer.

Walter Piecyk: I’m guessing that if any conversation that occurred between NHTSA and Tesla, if the feedback they got from Tesla was like, you know, go climb a tree, and they weren’t, you know, acknowledging and, and providing what their game plan was in these different scenarios and addressing the concerns, then there’d be a leak. Right? We will see a press report in the next week or two, like, oh, you know, Tesla came in and said like, don’t worry about it. That and NHTSA is not gonna do anything there, there there’s gonna be a leak. I think the reality is they probably came in, talked about what the issues were, how they’re gonna address them, you know, what the risk factors are there. And the fact that NHTSA didn’t move forward is probably good signal. You know, that they’re, that they’re ha that they’re satisfied with those responses.

Grayson Brulte: For someone to sit here to speculate about the Tesla Nitsa relationship, you have to understand there’s a direct line between Tesla, NHTSA and, and there’s ongoing conversations. Not all those conversations are made public. We don’t know what they talk about, but we do know that there’s a direct line. Every robbo taxi manufacturer has a direct line to NHTSA. Every OEM has a direct line to NHTSA. What happened in those conversations? We don’t know. We might never know, but we do know that they, there is a ongoing communication.

Walter Piecyk: So I guess the question is, what’s next? Like, if you are Tesla, right? And you know, you, you’re aware of these, you know, minor glitches that have happened, you know, um, so far in the first week. Typical, I think for early rollouts, even though they’ve done some level of testing ahead of time. What’s next in terms of the expansion in Austin and, and, and maybe some of these additional markets? 

Grayson Brulte: What do I think is next, or what do I think moves the needles? Two different, two different scenarios.

Walter Piecyk: What do you think’s next? Like how, how do you, what do you think happens from here? Now? You’ve seen a couple of videos. We have not experienced it yet directly. Um, when does, when do you think Austin expands their ODD, you know, with California seeing this and you’re gonna have people pointing to a couple of, of video snippets here and there is, does that make it more difficult to launch in California? So do they pick a new market? Just play, play out for me the next six months in terms of Tesla’s expansion,

Grayson Brulte: In terms of Tesla’s expansion, it’s all gonna come down to the big beautiful bill, but we’ll get into that later. When I look at in, in Austin right now, it’s been publicly disclosed. There’s 12 vehicles. We’re recording at the end of June, I’ll say by the middle of July 20 to, to 25 vehicles. There. I’ll, I’ll give you number 22 to 23 to be exact. Some, somewhere in that timeframe. As we go into the middle of August, I could see a 15, 20, 20 5%, maybe 30%. Increase in the ODD by October. I see Robotaxis in downtown Austin, and then I’m gonna go out on a limb here, I’ll say by the end of the year, they’re picking up at the airport. So by the end of the year you’re gonna go from Giga, which is, that’s up to the SH one 30 freeway toll road, all, all the way to downtown. I don’t know if they make it up to the University of Texas, Austin, but I think you’re gonna see a dramatic expansion of that ODD by the end of the year as it relates to California. That’s gonna come down to the big, beautiful bill.

Walter Piecyk: I wasn’t expecting you to be that specific race. And you’re, you’re talking about literally down to the one or two numbers on the cars and like month by month. I love it. Um, I would, my takeaway from that is like, if that is true and they, and they expand Austin’s ODD and that, you know, the, the ride along driver is out, which I think you, you talked about before relative to where expectations have moved in the past week, meaning Uber stock was up 8% because of, you know, some of these video glitches, or excuse me, some of these initial glitches that occurred. I think that will be perceived positively for Tesla and, and them being back on track. ’cause I think that the takeaway from investors has been like, oh man, like if they’re only there, this is not gonna expand out of, out of Austin. This is gonna be like an Austin science project. Not expanding the ODD for some extended period of time. On the flip side, obviously if some of these glitches get worse or actually result in some accident, you know that, you know, I inject a greater level of uncertainty, risk, and ultimately pay off for those that are gonna bet one way or another on how this goes.

Grayson Brulte: to the audience. It’s very important that as Walt’s, right, when he said, you’re, you’re not gonna turn on a million Model Ys overnight. This is to be a well thought out expansion with a lot of attention paid to the details. At the end of the day, I do believe that they will expand faster than Waymo has because of where their technologies and, and how it’s evolving and developing. But I want to have, this is gonna be a well thought out expansion with a lot of focus paid into the details.

Walter Piecyk: And again, it just goes back to how we started this segment, which is, I think when you have, you know, some of the initial coverage and some of this, these people building up expectations, oh, this is better than Waymo. Oh, the, you know, they’re gonna turn on a million taxis overnight. It just builds up, um, a false expectation. Look. You know, Elon is, is in part guilty for some of this based on, you know, some of the stuff that he tweets. But like he is a leader, you have to understand that he’s setting a milestone for his, uh, internal employees and put it in that context. Um, but in terms of, you know, setting market expectations, I think it’s quite different. And as a reminder, and I know I said this many, many times on autonomy markets, I mean, institutional investors are generally very skeptical about, you know, where Tesla is, pace is, I know you see analysts that go on CNBC, you know, and say certain things. They don’t, they don’t really, in my view, represent where the largest institutional investors’ minds are at in terms of Tesla’s impact and the timing of the market. And I would just direct you to where, you know, Uber stock is today. Um, and some of the participation, which is I think is generally limited, uh, on the institutional side of things, um, with Tesla.

Grayson Brulte: You’re right, Uber stock has had a great year. It’s outperforming the s and p 500. It’s, it’s had a great year. If the sky was falling, as some have predicted, Uber stock would not be outperforming the market. That that’s a very important thing to point out there, as you clearly stated.

Walter Piecyk: And let’s be clear though, that. Uber’s future is not hinging on Tesla. Yes, I get that. If Tesla is wildly successful, it could be a one guy takes everything type of market, almost like you’ve seen Uber today in, in Rideshare. But I think, you know, Uber’s future probably is more hinging on which way Waymo goes, whether they maintain themselves as a partner or go a different way, uh, in terms of, uh, partnering and, and even just getting out of the Robotaxi business altogether and licensing their technology, uh, to OEMs. And I think that’s probably gonna have a larger, uh, bearing on Uber’s future, than Tesla.

Grayson Brulte: Uber has a, a, a lot of path forward. This week they announced Atlanta Waymo is open for everyone. Three days after Tesla launches Robotaxi year we entering, it’s called the ping pong phase of autonomy, where Uber makes announcement. Tesla makes an announcement, Waymo makes an announcement. Everybody’s trying to con control that narrator for 24 to 48 hours.

Walter Piecyk: I mean, it’s possible. And by the way, the move in Uber stock this week, it was even debated among investors who trade this stuff day to day. It’s like, is the move from, you know, maybe a glitch or two that was profiled from um, Tesla, or was the 8% move because they finally launched and reminded people that they have this relationship with Waymo that they launched in Atlanta. So there was some debate. My personal opinion, it was probably more about some of these videos because like, you know, Waymo Atlanta was already announced, so who cares that they, you know, that they announced it. I mean, I think we talked about this two episodes ago, saying that this was imminent, right? 

Grayson Brulte: the ODD in Atlanta is 65 square miles. Two key things are missing highways and airports. Right now, the only airport that Waymo has unlocked is Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. When do more airports start to get a lock? Because as we’ve seen from TNC data, that is a massive revenue opportunity for Waymo.

Walter Piecyk: My view on all this is, is continues to evolve. So if they’re launching Atlanta Waymo, um, they’re satisfied with kind of how supply is cranking out from the magna um, delivery. So it still might be that supply is restricting highways, it’s, I’m leaning more towards more of them getting greater comfort with the technology, um, for the highways. But the airports are probably more in your world, Grayson, in terms of understanding when the, they can get through the hurdles, the regulatory hurdles to open up those airports. So what, what’s your view there? 

Grayson Brulte: It should be a priority. The, the regulatory stuff can be worked out. Uber worked it out. Lyft worked it out. Black car service, worked it out, it, it can be worked out. Uber a great job. They couldn’t get into the Orlando airport because of a company called mes. They basically had a defacto monopoly. So what did Uber do? They bought mes and then what happened? They got access to the Orlando airport. So I would say to the Waymo team, you’ve got the partnership for now with Uber. They have a lot of experience opening up. Airports lean heavily on them ’cause they have the the policy chops to get it done.

Walter Piecyk: that statement there, Grayson, where you’re saying lean on your Uber relationship in Atlanta, I think is a good segue to New York. ’cause last week we talked about how Uber was notably absent, excuse me, in the Waymo announcement of wanting to get into New York. Now the, the dialogue that I’ve heard subsequent to that was, okay, that’s an early announcement and. If anything, this Waymo is going to need Uber. ’cause Uber has managed to be able to get into New York, which is a tough market from a regulatory standpoint. I mean, look, all bets are, could be off if, depending on how the whole mayor, um, election, mayoral election goes in New York. Um, but let’s just forget to put that aside for a second. You know, do you think Waymo is gonna be driven into Uber’s hands for the, the precise thing that you just mentioned with Atlanta? ’cause last week you were saying no, they can do it on their own. But now, you know, if, if what you just said applies in Atlanta, like lean on Uber to get into the Atlanta airport, why wouldn’t they lean on Uber and create that as a partnership for the Waymo launch in New York, whenever that occurs in, in 2026.

Grayson Brulte: They could. I’m not saying they should, but what I am saying very bluntly, Waymo needs policy help.

Walter Piecyk: That’s fine. So then that’s kind of a modification, sorry, Grayson, and I’m holding you your feet to the fire on this one. Last week you made a big deal about saying Uber was not in that New York launch. So it sounds like maybe now you’re advocating that Waymo should, should buddy up with, with Uber, , in order to get launched in New York. If, by the way, if that happened, the market reaction to Uber is gonna be, I think, super positive. Right. And I think that that validates a lot of the bull thesis that people had in terms of Waymo and, and Uber being longer term partners.

Grayson Brulte: yes, my thinking is changing ’cause something happened in the market over the last week. So I’ll say that something happened that is changing my thesis in Outlook on that. If they did do that in New York, you’re right, Uber’s gonna go up uh uh dramatically. Dr. Dramatically. Am I certain that’s gonna be the path? No. Is it a possibility to be a path? Yes. But what I am certain on Waymo needs a significant amount of policy help.

Walter Piecyk: Fascinating. What’s also fascinating is no one’s even talking about Waymo Lyft anymore. I mean, that was out there every, we were expecting new markets and like, so I don’t, so I guess the other person Waymo could lean on in New York is Lyft. ’cause they also had to get into New York and maybe they’ve got some policy help, but like What is going on What do you think is going on with the Waymo Lyft connection? 

Grayson Brulte: A very good friend of mine, a good friend of this podcast, Pete Bigelow, did a recently recorded a podcast with Jeremy Byrd from Lyft. You can listen to the the Shift podcast, uh, later today after you listen to ours. If you listen to it, Jeremy, avoid the Waymo question. Pete asked him. He tried to have a big little battle there getting an answer out, voided the answer lift. And as we’ve known, and I, and I’ve tried to get it, Jeremy’s been on the road to autonomy. When answered. Every time somebody tries to ask a Lyft executive the Waymo question, they end up playing hopscotch around it. So what’s really going on there? The fact that they won’t even talk about that, I don’t necessarily think that’s a very good place right now.

Walter Piecyk: I mean, door number three here is that Waymo just gives up owning fleets altogether. And, you know, it just becomes a technology company. And that’s, I think that’s part of a thesis that a lot of people have. And I think with, certainly even within Waymo, there’s, there, there’s probably people believe that, I don’t know how that changes as this product moves forward. I mean, I think Google Fiber was originally thought of as something that was, you know, trying to get competition in the market. Why? ’cause Google wants people to have better internet, better internet, they can use more of their services. And yet, even today, Google Fiber continues to expand markets. They’re not aggressive, they’re not trying to be the dominant player, but they, they’ve never sold, they’ve never shut it down. They effectively achieved their goals, right? You have fiber Buildouts from at and t and private equity, and, and now T-Mobile is partnering with people. So they’ve achieved their goals and yet they’re continuing to expand. So I don’t, I think the jury’s still out on whether Waymo maintains a Robotaxii fleet, you know, over the long term. And then the secondary question there is like, whether they partner, With, with Uber in the interim. And if they do both, then maybe Uber is still fine. Like Waymo has their own fleet, but they still get access to fleets that, that benefit from that technology. ’cause Waymo’s gonna cut deals with OEMs. So maybe, maybe there’s like an answer that’s in between all three of these alternatives.

Grayson Brulte: This is a hypothetical situation. What if Waymo’s Robotaxi expansion is to perfect the Waymo driver and as you said, and then pivot to a full licensing business? Then this is a hypothetical. What if Waymo sold the Robotaxi business to Uber and Waymo just kept the licensing business? 

Walter Piecyk: I mean, that would obviously be great for Uber. So, and I, and I would not remove that from one of the possibilities. I know there’s people out there that believe Uber does not want to own cars, and yes, long term they don’t. And yes, , you know, there are gonna be opportunities long term to, to push that off. To financial partners and I, and I’ve advocated for, you know, some tax breaks that are reit like, that you could, that you could build into that. , But I think, look, in the near term, Uber’s gonna own cars. I think some of these deals, like they haven’t detailed them yet with Wayve, but I think in that situation, they’re gonna own those, those cars initially. You know, if Nuro does Deal, does a deal with him, I think that Uber, you know, will own those cars. So, you know, if they own that fleet and then somehow, you know, de-risk themselves by by, you know, bringing in financial partners, which I don’t think is as complex as many people think, then sure that that is a potential, um, future. And I think that would obviously be very, very positive for uber.

Grayson Brulte: No matter which way Waymo goes, it’s going to have an effect on Uber one way or another. And, and let’s not forget about Wayve. Dara was in London this week. He did a panel with Alex Kendall, the co-founder and CEO. He went for a ride in the Wayve vehicle. They, he seems to be giving him a bear hug, and that relationship is seeming to get cozier by the day.

Walter Piecyk: that’s definitely, , very fair. Uh, Grayson that, you know, that that relationship is one, I mean, they have multiples, 15, 16, whatever the number is. Of relationships, but you know, I’m seeing Dara, Dara there. Very excited. Obviously, you know, you and I have talked about planning a trip to London, uh, later this fall, the checkout Wayve. Um, you know, so, so definitely something to keep our eyes on as well.

Grayson Brulte: Just when you thought the autonomy markets couldn’t get more interesting, we got breaking news. Cue the music, but we don’t have that type of budget. Travis Kalanick he’s back. There’s a report from the New York Times, fresh off the wire here. That with Uber’s financial backing, Mr. Kalanick is looking to acquire the US operations of pony ai. That’s a big move with two interesting bedfellows.

Walter Piecyk: Well, that is definitely incredible given, you know, Travis was, was at Uber. , But obviously, uh, Uber’s looking to spread their technology wings at as many places as possible, and they’re kind of the go-to partner now, um, for everyone other than Tesla. So. Wow, that is, that is pretty amazing and big news. And it, it’s gonna be great to see Travis back in the game. So I know this is just. Obviously it looks like it’s just speculative now, but hopefully that gets done.

Grayson Brulte: You wanna know the most interesting part in this deal? Pony does cars and trucks. That’s another interesting element to this.

Walter Piecyk: for sure and it’s, and it’s great to have yet another player in the US market for us to, to talk more about.

Grayson Brulte: Do you believe, this is pure speculation ’cause this is breaking, but do you see at some point, or do you feel at some point that these pony vehicles could run exclusively on the Uber network? Since Uber will be the potentially the financial backer of this deal? 

Walter Piecyk: Certainly that’s, that’s possible. They’re large enough in terms of their, uh, distribution for them to do it. If they’re funding it, you know, perhaps they’d wanna, as part of those term agreements, keep lift out. But I think. In general, you probably don’t wanna do that. You, you can, you’re probably gonna do better if you allow your, all of these technologies to flourish on multiple platforms. At, at this point, they have the most share. What they really need is that autonomous part of the technology stack, , to proliferate and to succeed. So that Tesla doesn’t run away that with the market. And, you know, Waymo doesn’t, you know, whatever. Use them to get into all these markets and use their regulatory expertise to get into all these markets and then dump them, um, in the future.

Grayson Brulte: I’m gonna put on my national security hat. This is speculation, but it’s a clear indicator of the pony AI as a Chinese company. And if it is, how are you gonna split the ip? That’s, that’s gonna get very complicated. And as if’s gonna get involved, is Homeland Security gonna get involved? And is this only happening now because of President Trump and his policies? 

Walter Piecyk: I think there’s, there’s been examples of companies that have done this, uh, in the past. So I don’t imagine that that’s gonna be a large issue unless there’s an interested party that’s squeaky and, and has the president’s ear.

Grayson Brulte: Then another positive catalyst for Uber. We got an announcement from Foxcon. They announced a partnership with Electro Bit, which is a wholly on subsidiary of Continental, the the tier one supplier to build an electric vehicle platform, both the hardware and software. Well, what goes on top of that and autonomy stack there is a clear, a very clear path now. Foxcon could become a Robotaxi contract manufacturer, and to further speculate, they call the platform Walt ready for this EVOS. What does that sound like? An Apple product? Was Foxcon gonna build the Apple car? 

Walter Piecyk: I don’t know, maybe we should have led with this as our first thing with all due respect to Tesla, but this is pretty, pretty big. I mean, you’re seeing yet another step in what Foxconn, you know, can enable and you know, should be kind of a warning shot. Uh, to the OEMs that you need to accelerate your plans with autonomous technology companies. You know, hello Ford. You’re one, you’re, I’m talking to you. Hello gm, you know, talking to you. Uh, you know, because Foxconn is coming and you know, if, if it’s especially in a roboto fleet where you might have specialized vehicles, this gets to like how, how the business model was originally written in Waymo before it was even called Waymo, you know, where they talked about, you know, purpose driven vehicles. I know the guys at Noro who are ex Waymo have kind of said, no, we don’t think that that is the future for a, you know, a variety of reasons, um, that we can address offline. But, you know, I think that’s still part of the plan here. And the bigger issue, uh, Grayson is, you know, if it’s Foxcon, then you’re inviting the likes of open ai, the likes of, uh, Nvidia. The likes of maybe Apple, which has completely missed multiple markets to reenter with, you know, technology development when they can pass off hardware.

Grayson Brulte: Yeah, and then you open the door to meta, so you open the door to deep pocket tech. The Mag seven could go into autonomy. If the Mag seven collectively went into autonomy, the market’s gonna be upend itself, and you’re gonna have massive. Massive change in all this competition is gonna enter.

Walter Piecyk: just look at the CapEx that these Mag seven, other than I guess Apple are willing to invest in ai, which many people recognize and for good reason is, you know, one of the biggest technology developments probably of our lifetime, you know, rivaling, if not maybe surpassing the internet and the impact that that’s, that’s had on the economy. Autonomy is the hardware manifestation of ai, right? And then, and you think about like, oh, what are the, what are the models that have benefited from the internet? They’ve gone a lot of different ways. Apple has been one of those models that has taken a lot of value from what the MO mobile internet offers. So there’s a lot of different ways. So as a result. I think when you, when you look at Nvidia, again, OpenAI, anyone with models and the dollars that are getting, that are flowing there, that you have to acknowledge that there could be interest in them entering the market. Like, it gets back to how much of a, of an, of a advantage, you know, does Waymo or Aurora, in the case of trucking, really have, if you have that money and this change in technology, that that is pushing this forward.

Grayson Brulte: The advantage is going away. AI use of the internet, I think it’s the greatest invention since the light bulb in terms of economic impact. It’s gonna be massive impact. The advantage that the so-called leaders have today is a disadvantage. It’s, it’s going to go away ’cause these models are, are changing. They’re going to go map list. Nvidia, despite buying deep map and investing, tens of millions of dollars in maps is working on mapless technology. Kodiak’s using mapless technology Wayve using mapless technology. Tesla is using mapless technology. Waymo and Aurora are reliant on that. So if you look at this, I could sit here and make a very interesting argument that the Aurora Waymo approach, let’s not forget Urmson came from Waymo. Google is AV 1.0. What wave everybody else is building map list with Tesla is AV 2.0 advantage and then are the max seven, what they’re building is that AV 3.0? Then you just see a faster acceleration in the development of of that technology. And at the end of the day, you know this from your telco world, you’re going to need a hardware partner. And I believe, and I truly do believe this Foxconn views, autonomy and autonomous vehicles as the next growth market for their company after the cell phone.

Walter Piecyk: So I agree with that. Um, but I do want to caveat and say. Just because technology has enabled new competitors to perhaps move more quickly doesn’t mean that Waymo can’t benefit from that. And, and when you relate it to my telco world, you know, the, you know, what Ericsson and Nokia and Samsung, their ability to evolve their networks with new technologies have prevented, like Amazon tried to come in and usurp the telecom infrastructure guys with, you know, new technologies, which didn’t really work. They got no traction. So just because it provides the opportunity doesn’t mean that Waymo can’t. And, and obviously, like I said earlier, you know, Dimitri has talked about how they’re, they’re benefiting from these tools and I think part of the reason we’re seeing them launch markets more quickly now is ’cause they’re also utilizing those tools. So maybe to try and continue to move forward, I just think that like, we just shouldn’t look through the lens of how, how autonomy has developed over the past. 10 years, we clearly have a new technology that’s getting used. Maybe Waymo can sustain their advantage. I don’t think we should just automatically as assume that what, you know, because it took them five to 10 years, others will, will, you know, take the same amount of time. And by the way, look at the benefit. The benefit to Waymo could be, you know, kind of like we’ve seen with, with starlink is when you’re, you know, in front you launch markets faster and then you start to broaden out into other markets like trucking, you know, like, you know, food delivery, like other things like that.

Grayson Brulte: Yeah, and you’re right, Waymo has, if you want to call it the rocket ship, ’cause SpaceX has the launch vehicle to get the, the satellites up there. Waymo has their version of the launch ship or the rocket ship or whatever term you want to use with the Waymo driver that could be applied. There. There, there’s, and, and I have a lot of friends in traditional trucking and you know, and, and you came with me to Ford Fort Worth, hosted by, Mr. Perot in Fort Worth and met a lot of them. And to this day I was actually having a conversation this morning. We still can’t go over the fact that Waymo shut down Waymo via their, their, their trucking operation. Could that ever come back or do you think that could go back into licensing where they just licensed that technology? 

Walter Piecyk: yeah, I, of course it can come back, which is, you know, precisely what I just said in terms of they are not just because they were, they were the leaders of, as you define it, autonomy 1.0 doesn’t mean that they can’t evolve and benefit from the technology of, of autonomy 2.0, which, which can manifest itself in two ways. You know, faster expansion in, in the US and obviously internationally. Licensing, you know, to OEMs. And then expanding into additional verticals, whether it’s trucking or, or, you know, specialized vehicles for food delivery or otherwise.

Grayson Brulte: specialized delivery market is growing. I’ve recently had the CEO of serve robotics on, I had the CEO of Cocoa robotics and that that market is growing. The interesting thing that, that Zach talked about from Cocoa, they have a partnership with OpenAI. Getting back to that, where OpenAI is using the data that Cocoa’s gathering to train a self-driving model. Very, very interesting there. Serve Robotics has to deal with Magna where they’re licensing their data to Magna, somatica perform their models. You’re starting to see these interesting models emerge here around data. Does data become a new revenue stream for these companies outside of licensing? 

Walter Piecyk: I mean, it could be a revenue stream, but, um, I mean, I think my takeaway from that cocoa comment and, and their relationship with, with OpenAI. Is again that companies like OpenAI or as we talked about last week, meta, you know, or could look for physical manifestations of their, of their technology. You know, so, and, and by the way, we’ve seen OpenAI talk to Johnny Ives and I think there’s speculation about coming out with a physical phone, another manifestation, a physical manifestation of ai. So the fact that, again, I’m not, I don’t think some deal with Coco, no offense to Coco is, is gonna be the end, end all, break all. But it’s just additional signal in the role that the new kind of tech leaders that are out there, um, can play in this market And how quickly they can get in there.

Grayson Brulte: I highly doubt that Waymo is gonna enter the delivery robot business. Yes, they have the technology. They could do it. I highly doubt them seeing it doing it. You know, outside of Cocoa Robotics, we have Serve Robotics who’s doing that this week? They’re an Uber partner. They just announced an expansion to Atlanta in partnership with Uber Eats in Shake Shack. What are your thoughts on this growing autonomous bot market? 

Walter Piecyk: I think that’s fair. Uh, Grayson, I, I probably got a bit carried away with my Waymo. I’ve just, you know, whenever I see what starlink has done and how they’ve wiped the map in, in terms of so many different segments, I, I just assume that any of these guys are gonna do it. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, serve is, is getting into new markets. You know, Coco, we both have spent some time with, you know, I think there’s room for, for multiple people here. And, and I think as it relates to Uber, this is clearly. This is not one that’s debatable. This is beneficial, I think, to Uber Eats in terms of lowering cost and improving reliability of, of delivery. So, uh, and congrats to them, you know, for, for them being served and I guess Uber both, but primarily serve for, for launching in Atlanta. So what we’re gonna have to spend more time, this goes back to the how you started this. We’ve got a lot of great feedback. We need to spend more time talking about other areas of, of autonomy, you know, whether it’s in the food delivery, trucking, um, or even many of the other technology partners. We gotta talk about May, we talked about May a lot, um, in past, uh, in past episodes, they’re driver out now . we should get a, we should get an update with what’s going on in May as well.

Grayson Brulte: We’re gonna get an update going on May in the coming months because their service in Atlanta with Lyft is launching in the coming days. Now Atlanta’s emerging as an autonomy hub with server robotics, Uber, Waymo, may, mobility, and soon to be Zoox operating there. Why do you think Atlanta is emerging as this autonomy hub? 

Walter Piecyk: I have no idea. I’m sure there’s, there’s an obvious reason for that, but I just think it’s, I always kinda laugh when you say Zoox that we bring it up. It’s funny because, because of the connection to Amazon, they’re still getting a lot of play. I think there’s hope that they’re gonna launch, I guess in, in Las Vegas. I don’t know. The, the other one I, I heard that, that kind of came up to me this week and I was getting asked questions about is, is Volkswagen, like I, what? I think there was something that they said, and there’s some view that they’re gonna be in, , in autonomy. And can you break down or translate where you think Volkswagen is in. You know, delivering a product to the market.

Grayson Brulte: Behind. There was a big press due. The Volkswagen unveils the ID bus. It wasn’t an unveil. It’s been at CES for years. I’ve sat in the vehicle, I’ve seen it. They showed off and maybe perhaps it’s a, it’s a newer designed interior, but it’s all based on the Moya platform. There. There’s nothing new there. From a stack perspective of vehicles, 13 cameras nine, nine lidars, and five radars, a lot of stuff’s going into it. VW clearly knows how to manufacture vehicles. They know how to manufacture them at scale. Those vehicles will next year, will be delivered to Uber in California. Going back to what you said, we don’t know who’s gonna own that fleet. They’re gonna start testing in 2026 with safety drivers behind the wheel when they commercialize. Tesla has safety attendant, VW has safety drivers. Big difference there. And then we do not have any public timeline for when they’re gonna go drive around. So to me, it wasn’t necessarily a big announcement. It was a regurgitation of previous announcements trying to, I would say, build buzz to take away from Tesla’s robotaxis launch. Again, going back to ping pong, ping pong.

Walter Piecyk: Well, that’s very helpful. Um, and, and for our listeners that are at these variety of companies, reach out to us. We’d definitely like to spend more time with you and profile it on, um, autonomy markets. Keep in mind, road to autonomy. Grayson does, you know, new companies every week. You just, as you mentioned, cocoa came out this week. I thought that was a great, um, interview. So there’s, there’s lots of these companies that we’d like to address. More and more, you know, on the Autonomy Markets podcast, ’cause we do believe that they have an opportunity to play, um, a significant role. So more on that in future episodes.

Grayson Brulte: Absolutely. And to the, to the folks at VW that, listen, Walt and I are happy to take a road trip to Austin to go in the MOIA. We love to experience it because without us experiencing it, we’re just basing this off of publicly available data, but we experience it. We’re basing off of experience and publicly available data,

Walter Piecyk: we did get invited to Volvo as well, Grayson, and I’m still waiting to, to try and to, to Volvo and, and check that out. Like, thankfully thanks to, to May and Nuro, we’ve, we’ve been, uh, we’ve been there among other places, but always looking to expand our knowledge in person. , You know, to report back to our listeners.

Grayson Brulte: And soon, perhaps Walt will even do a segment called Autonomy Markets from the road or On the Road. You Never know. As we keep expanding, to our listeners and viewers, thanks for tuning in every week. Walt, this is your famous section. What do we need to look for in the autonomy markets over the coming week? 

Walter Piecyk: we need to look forward to the big, beautiful bill. I think that the target is July 4th, and I don’t know, maybe there will be something in there that touches the AI or autonomy space. Otherwise, it’s, I think, a relatively quiet week.

Grayson Brulte: I was in DC this week and there’s a lot of buzz around the big, beautiful bill in that AI clause. To listeners and viewers, have a wonderful 4th of July, Walt, and I’ll be back here. Same time every Saturday. 10:00 AM EST. The future is bright. The future autonomous. The future is scaling Walt. Until next week.

Key Autonomy Markets Episode Questions Answered