Transcript: Autonomous Trucking Is Reviving Local Communities, One Route at a Time

Executive Summary

In this episode of The Road to Autonomy podcast, Grayson Brulte sits down Earl Adams Jr., VP of Policy and Regulatory Affairs at Plus to discuss the optimistic and bipartisan progress being made in autonomous trucking regulation. 

During the episode Earl shares how autonomous trucks will deliver significant economic benefits, reducing per-mile costs and creating new, high-paying technical jobs that can revitalize the American middle class. Earl also details Plus’s groundbreaking strategy of engaging directly with local communities, officials, and colleges along their Texas deployment routes to build trust and ensure the technology serves the people it operates alongside.

Key The Road to Autonomy Episode Questions Answered

Key The Road to Autonomy Topics & Timestamps

[00:25] Current State of Autonomous Trucking Policy 

Earl Adams expresses strong optimism about the regulatory landscape, citing recent bipartisan progress at both the federal and state levels. He believes that while a comprehensive national framework is still needed, the industry is moving in the right direction.

[04:45] The Economic and Sustainability Benefits of Autonomy 

Beyond the primary goal of safety, autonomous trucking offers significant sustainability and economic benefits. The technology is projected to reduce operating costs by as much as $1.50 per mile, creating a positive economic ripple effect that will lead to better-paying jobs.

[06:20] Plus’ Community Engagement Strategy in Texas 

Plus is proactively building trust by engaging directly with local stakeholders including elected officials, community leaders, and first responders along its Texas deployment routes. This ground-level communication allows Plus to hear concerns directly and adjust its plans based on community feedback.

[10:55] Creating New Career Paths and Upskilling Jobs

Autonomous trucking is creating new, high-paying career paths in areas like advanced maintenance, emergency dispatch, and technology management. Plus is engaging with community colleges and technical schools to help develop the job training programs needed for this future workforce without the burden of student debt.

[17:35] California’s New Rulemaking and Federal Preemption

The California DMV has initiated a rulemaking process to permit the testing and commercialization of heavy-duty autonomous trucks, a positive step for the industry. However, there is a strong possibility that a future federal framework could preempt state-level laws, creating a single, uniform standard for the nation.

[22:50] Exemption from Hours of Service Rules 

A key operational benefit of fully autonomous trucks is that they will not be subject to Hours of Service regulations. This exemption is necessary to achieve the full efficiency of the technology, as the truck’s operation will no longer be limited by a human driver’s need for rest.

[28:15] Building Public Trust and Acceptance 

The industry’s greatest challenge is not regulation, but achieving public acceptance and adoption. The industry is working to build trust through education and by creating opportunities for the public to be exposed to the technology through demonstrations and demo rides to build familiarity and confidence.

[30:50] The Role of a Federal Framework

A federal regulatory framework is seen as crucial for public trust. It acts as an official signal to the country that the vehicles have met a baseline of safety, which helps create certainty and confidence among the public.

[32:30] Generational Divide in Acceptance

Earl Adams shares a personal story about how his teenage sons view self-driving cars as completely normal, while his wife is more hesitant. Highlighting a generational divide in the comfort level with autonomous technology.

[35:30] Industry Collaboration on Safety 

The discussion shifts to why the autonomous trucking industry is highly collaborative and does not compete on safety. Because trucking is already a highly regulated industry, there is a shared understanding that an incident involving one company would negatively impact everyone.

[37:45] A Regulator’s Perspective

Having moved from his government role at the FMCSA to his industry role at Plus, Earl explains that his confidence in the industry’s commitment to safety has been bolstered. He was reassured to find that the safety-first message companies presented to him as a regulator is the same message practiced internally.

[40:45] Final Takeaways 

The episode concludes with Earl’s final message: the “future is now,” and the safety, efficiency, and economic benefits of autonomy are real. However, he stresses that the rollout will be a gradual process, not an overnight switch from one truck to 700,000.

Full Episode Transcript

Grayson Brulte: Earl a lot’s happened in the autonomous trucking space. A lot of regulations, a lot of change on the horizon. How are you currently thinking about autonomous trucking from a policy perspective?

Earl Adams Jr.: Grayson. And first of all, thanks for that having me on today. Really excited about this conversation and I think it kind of reflects on how I’m feeling about the, the industry from a regulatory standpoint right now. Very optimistic. I mean, we are seeing movement. On both the federal and the state level, which is, and frankly, it’s in a bipartisan way. And so, you know, this means I think that the industry is in a really good place. We got a long way to go, before we have some, a set of comprehensive guardrails, for the nation. But the last several weeks have really, we’ve been moving in the right direction in my mind.

Grayson Brulte: We’re definitely moving in the right direction on ap. April 24th, secretary Duffey, secretary of Transportation, came out and did the. The automated vehicle framework, but Delphi did not talk about trucks weighing over 10,001 gross pounds. Why do you think that is?

Earl Adams Jr.: I think it’s just a matter of timing. You know, we, we were pretty certain in industry. The two items. More flexibility with respect to the certification process and revisions to the SGO. We were pretty certain that that was going to happen, with the change of administration. And so I think that what we, what we saw with that announcement, was step one, in what is going to be a multi-step, process. You know, if you listen to the, to the secretary’s announcement, you. The initiative, the entire plan. And I, and I think that, we’ll, we’ll get more clarity on that. The innovation plan is what he called it. I think we’ll get more clarity on that, including, heavy duty trucks, you know, in shorter or at least that’s my, that, that’s my hope.

Grayson Brulte: Are you concerned at all? With the reports around Sean O’Brien, the head of the Teamsters meeting with President Trump on a regular basis, that there could be some labor influence that could influence autonomous trucking policy.

Earl Adams Jr.: There is definitely gonna be labor influence, impacting autonomous trucking policy. We, we to, to think otherwise would be naive. you know, that said, I think that there has been clear indication from the. Secretary and from the president that, autonomy is the future. And you know that they believe that there’s value to having, a, a framework that by which the, the industry can, can develop. Now, you know, the, the nuances or the. How this is going to, to sort of come to play relative to, to labor. You know, we have to wait and see. But you know, what I know is that at plus, you know, the, the outreach and the interactions that I’ve had, and I think this is fair to say across the industry, is that we’re ready to have the, the conversation with labor. Because we, we’ve gotta work together. We’ve gotta be able to talk about the, the up, up upscaling of jobs, new jobs are gonna be, that are gonna be created, as a result of autonomy. And so, you know, I I, I don’t see it as a, a negative or a harbinger of something negative, but I see it as just a part of the, the normal process. You know, the reality is, is that. Going to your question about timing. You know they have two proposals. And so they, they’ve got a, a framework. They just need to decide, um, what the first step is gonna be. And, and I do think that it’s fair that you may, uh, have, uh, influences not just from labor, but also from safety advocates that are going to, you know, advocate as best as they can to perhaps limit. You know, the scope of that first rule. But to be honest with you, Grayson, I’ve always said, even in my prior life when I was in the, in the administration, that we know that regulations for autonomy, it’s gonna be an process, meaning it’s gonna be multiple rules. So I don’t expect that this first. Rule or this first proposal is going to be the only one it is going to represent, hopefully a first, a first step that will establish sort of a baseline of, for the, the safe operation of L four trucks. But it’s not gonna be the last, so, you know, I’m ready to have the conversation. I Justin’s ready to have the conversation. The jobs issues, and I think the industry is well. So we have wait and, but even with that, the presence of, of Mr, you know, the relationship, he may president, I’m still.

Grayson Brulte: Optimistic the way to be. The industry as a whole is very optimistic. I’m very optimistic in reading the transcripts from several speeches that Secretary Duffy has given, he’s highlighted economics quite a bit. The positive economic impact that automation and autonomy will have on the US economy. Do you feel that could be a driving, driving force as the secretary’s out there talking about the economic message?

Earl Adams Jr.: With, without a doubt. I mean, when we look at, at plus, when we talk about the benefits of autonomy, you know, we, we talk about. Obviously the safety benefits and we, which have to always be the North star. We talk about the sustainability benefits, so from an energy, sustainability, perspective, but we, without question, talk about the economics of, of autonomy and what we know is that. You know, as a result of, of using autonomous vehicles, from a trucking, bottom line perspective, you know, there is significant, benefits, economic benefits. You know, some have projected it at, you know, as much of a dollar dollar 50, less per mile driven. And so. And when you’re, when you’re talking about, that type of overall, economic, you know, sort of value add, it can have ripple effects, which will turn, which will actually go towards, you know, creating better jobs, creating better paying jobs. You know, they will have that ripple effect within this economic sector. . And so, you know, I’m not surprised that they’re talking about the economics of, benefits of autonomy. I mean, we definitely understand it and we see it, and that’s one of the things that we engage with, with our customers, with our OEM partners. , and so yeah, the economics are definitely a part of the discussion. , but just as much as the safety benefits and the, energy sustainability benefits.

Grayson Brulte: If you look at it staying on the economic team, if you look at it from a local community standpoint, a lot of the, the over the road, let’s say the multi-day trips, those are gonna become automated and those drivers will do the last a hundred miles, 50 miles, and they’ll go home to their family at night, they’ll go to church Sunday, perhaps they’ll go to little League. A game on the weekend with their children instead of having to, to be in the rope. ’cause that’s what autonomy is going to enable Ev on the economic front. Now they’re gonna go to the local diner, they’re maybe go to the local ice cream store. You’re gonna have a lot of positive economic impacts on that community. And Earl, well we had a very fascinating chat at Ford for Worth hosted by Mr. Ross Pro Junior in Ian Kitty. And you said something that really, really resonated me that I wanna highlight on this podcast. Plus is getting ready to deploy, drive Route 2027. Commercial operations from San Antonio to Dallas. With your partners, you mentioned that you’re going community by community, speaking to local officials, elected officials, first responders, to to build that trust. What has been the impact on those conversations that you’ve been having across tech?

Earl Adams Jr.: I appreciate you, you know, bringing that up and, you know, I joined plus in January of this year, having had a career in both federal government and state government. And what I know, from that, that experience is that, you know, regular communication and engagement of local officials, is, is key, because those are the individuals that are going to, you know, it’s their constituents who are gonna be impacted, by whatever the change happens to be. And so one of the things that when I joined, the team at Plus and I made it, you know, sort of laid out my. Vision and goal for how, you know, how I was gonna help prepare. Plus, as we move towards, our commercial deployment date, I, I, I said, you know what? I wanna be in Texas. I want to be in the on the ground, talking to not only elected officials, I. But business leaders, I’m talking to community leaders, community organizations. I’m going to, community colleges, technical colleges. , so I’m talking to the entire array of individuals that are along the I 35, right now, the I 35 corridor, but really it’s gonna be the Texas Triangle. So that’s, you know, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, talking to, all of these various stakeholders about plus. Introducing them. You know, many introducing us to many of them. But also, with the purpose of hearing from them as to how they see, the impacts of autonomy on their communities. And then, you know, what I’m working with, with our team here at Plus, is how can we go about addressing that as, as best we can. So one example, when it comes to congestion, along I 35, so anyone who’s driven. From San Antonio to Dallas, you know, through Austin knows that there’s a significant amount of road construction right now on that road. And so I was just having a conversation, yesterday with the mayor pro temp of Austin, where she, referenced this and I said, you know, Madam Mayor, you know, we’ve heard this. And so as a result. We are now looking at alternative, highway. So state Highway one 30, which really is parallel to I 35. You know, our engineers are looking at how we can move some of our testing, to, to I to state road high, high one 30, excuse me. As just a sort of a, a example of how, you know, through that feedback loop, we can then make adjustments, which we think show that we are a. , you know, a good partner, a good local partner. , we are also looking at, you know, the, the same thing exists between Dallas and Houston. And so, you know, from a timing, you know, when the testing happens. So we are able to make adjustments is my point. By virtue of getting this feedback, from, from local leaders. One other example, I had a conversation, with the, members of a local Chamber of commerce. And they were talking about their members who are, truck drivers, who are motor carriers and wanting to understand, well, how, how is it that, you know, these smaller, motor carriers can take advantage of the economic benefits that you talk about with autonomy? And, you know, what I was able to, to, to reference them is to kind of explain what we see the lifecycle of, of the rollout for autonomous and.A 2027 commercial, deployment, whether it’s US or others within the industry. You know, it’s not gonna be zero trucks to 700,000 trucks. You know, it’s going to be a gradual process. And so I said, you know, we have the ability to, to help them plan. You know, we have the ability to, to make introductions to our OEM partners so that they can plan out what the next. Three to five years look like for their, for their company. So I’m getting a lot of good feedback and I’m really happy, with the, with the work so far. But there, there’s more to do. You know, as we, as we are, you know, over the next 18 months, really ramping up our engagement in Texas.

Grayson Brulte: You’re a good steward of the community. I mean, that’s truly what this comes down to it, and that Prasad is doing a fantastic job running. SH one 30 and he really wants to make it to the home of autonomous trucking, and that’s that en engagement there that happened at Fort Fort Worth. Community colleges are interesting. When you’re meeting with the community colleges, are you having conversations around career paths, paths for jobs, the new skills that are gonna have to be learned in this industry? Perhaps they set up an enhanced inspection program at the college where that individual can become certified and get a job. What are those conversations like?

Earl Adams Jr.: You hit it right on the head. That’s exactly what those conversations are, are, are about, is what we see as the future of a of, of the. What would be the career path for someone in trucking? , the community colleges, the technical schools, they are, you know, prime, especially in Texas where there’s a lot of state support, that these, institutions receive, for job training and, and job skills. So, you know, we are gonna. Continue to, to engage. I think that there’s still, you know, we we’re still trying to understand what the full range of jobs look like, but the enhanced pre-trip inspection is what you’re talking about. , you know, I think that under, when I, when I think about the jobs, whether it’s in maintenance. Whether it’s in emergency dispatch, you know, understanding the technology, you know, those are the types of skills that I think that folks are going to need. And, and frankly, because of the economic benefits, you know, these are gonna become really good paying jobs, that are going to be reliable. They’re going to, frankly, you know, relative to the on the road, driving now jobs, and respect. The reception for, whether it’s technical schools, community colleges, or even organizations like the Urban League, which create pipeline programs, has been very, very positive.

Grayson Brulte: It is positive, and let’s look at a marker in a industry similar to yours, automotive Tesla has. Made more millionaires, including factory workers on the factory line than any automotive company in history. That’s impactful because of stock options. If you look at the growth of the autonomous trucking industry, plus you could start minting millionaires, the individuals that work on trucks. ’cause you’re giving them financial stability. And that’s a big part of it and, and it’s an issue that are listeners and viewers know that I harp on all the time. You’re giving these individuals a path to a very viable, profitable career without. Ready for this, the overhang of student debt. And that is impactful because they no longer have that chain around their neck where they can never grow and never afford to buy a home. You’re giving them a path to financial freedom. That’s what you’re doing.

Earl Adams Jr.: so I oftentimes talk about the three E’s at plus what I’m doing. You know, it’s the education, it’s the exposure and its evaluation. So we try to educate as many folks as we can about, plus about the benefits of autonomy, expose them to autonomy, and then provide the data. To be able to make the evaluation. But the fourth one is evangelism, and you just, that event, you just hit it right on the head. It’s talking about the broad benefits opening up, the range of opportunities, that this new technology, you know, can bring to bear. , it’s, it’s can be scary. And again, I, I will take it on as, deputy administrator at F-M-C-S-A, you know, I never shied away from a hard conversation from my good friends at Oida, uh, or even.Labor. , but, and I get it, it’s scary. It’s new. The reality is when you just hit it on the head, we’re, we’re, this has the potential of creating, let’s not, we don’t have to go to the millionaire. That’s the extreme. But the, it’s the new middle class that if you think about a hundred years ago, and what, what did automotive, the automotive industry do? It created the middle class. In the Midwest, in the us that’s what it did. And I think that we have the same potential here, at a, at a scale that has not been seen in a very long time. So that evangelism is, is, is right on. And I don’t think that it’s overblown. I think that it is a, it’s a real legitimate, incredible, sort of points to make and to remind people, you know, that from an economic standpoint, autonomy does, can, it can and will be beneficial.

Grayson Brulte: The automotive industry made Detroit, and I’m gonna get a little controversial and made Windsor. Canada, I know there’s tariffs, but the automotive industry made, made Windsor Canada. Could autonomous trucking have that similar impact on the Dallas Fort Worth region? Since everybody has facilities there?

Earl Adams Jr.: I actually believe that that’s very possible. And in fact, and you know, we heard from the folks at Fort Fort Worth, you know, the leaning in, around autonomy, they are building. Not only are they supporting and just from a real estate standpoint, I. The business, but they’re also building out an infrastructure and it’s that infrastructure that that’s the knock on economic impact that you’re talking about. So not so you don’t actually have to be in the autonomous vehicle space, but you could be on the electrical side that is hoping to, to reinforce the grid. In order to support the, the level of, of energy that’s necessary for these vehicles, to exist. You could, you can find yourself as part of, I recently heard from the folks at Penske and in other, the, the, the companies that are gonna be doing the, potential support of the vehicles. On the road, you know, to go out to do emergency dispatch, et cetera. You know, there are gonna be all of these sort of ancillary type industries that build and, and the Dallas folks, Fort Worth, I mean, they are definitely, you know, they’re eager. I, as, as I like to say, they are leaning in on the potential economic benefits that, they think they can happen. You know, I. At beginning my, my, my, inroads into the Houston area. I’m sure that I’ll hear the same thing, in Houston, as well in San Antonio. So, you know, this is a, I said yesterday, at, we here pluses, . We are, we have a booth at the a CT Expo in Anaheim this week where we made several announcements, like relating to our driver route test that we did on a closed course, at TRC, in partnerships with Hyundai. But, you know, I, I made the point yesterday that, you know, we are. It’s not an inflection point. We are beyond the inflection point right now. Which is a great thing, you know, this is the future is now. And, I think that as we, you know, continue to, to talk about all of the great benefits that can come from autonomy, you know, we just have to, to be patient in some respects, but we also have to ex, you know, realize that things are going today and we need to, to be prepared, to deal with, all of these benefits that can come very in, very short order.

Grayson Brulte: Yourself and and your colleagues across the industry are doing a really good job of especially preparing PO policy makers and local elected officials. For this technology. You’re down in Anaheim, you’re across the street from Disneyland. I know you didn’t go, but I still gotta give a plug for Disneyland. Your name is Plus. And Walt Disney had the famous line when he had told its engineers to go build something. They would come back and you go plus it. So I’m gonna ask you to plus this question, Earl california. I was shocked when I read this. The California DMV has opened a rulemaking to allow the testing and commercialization of autonomous trucks with a gross weight over 10,001 pounds. On public roads, does California see what’s coming and what’s being built in Texas? I said, wait, wait a second. We can’t let any more jobs go to Texas. We’re gonna lean in here and and clear a regulatory path.

Earl Adams Jr.: So I, I don’t know if it’s necessarily that they don’t want to see, they see the jobs leaving it, it’s possible that, that’s not my, uh, uh, that’s not my wheelhouse. But what I will say is this, is that, when in the prior administration I had many conversations with. The folks at California, DMV, and they knew then, about the importance of having, a, a regulatory framework for heavy duty trucks to operate on public roads. I think that what we’re seeing now is sort of the, the result of just the, the la, the regulatory lag. It just takes a while for things to. You know, I think that, you know, as I said at the top, I think it’s a really good development. I, I think that this is a clear indication, that the state knows and appreciates, as I said, that the future is now, that, you know, whether you, I mean, California is the center of the development, the software development of this technology. And so that, so to say that companies have to then take their tech. And test it somewhere else. You know that that’s the sort of a discipline, there’s the inefficiency built within that. And I think that, you know, what we’re seeing with California’s, movement here is a strong indication that they understand that there needs to be able to be the complete life cycle that can occur on California roads.

Grayson Brulte: It is a positive step in the right direction. California recently passed Japan to become the fourth largest economy in the world. That’s impressive.

Earl Adams Jr.: That’s very much.

Grayson Brulte: Into itself. having lived half my life in California, said, okay, there’s something doesn’t add up here. Are we gonna see carve outs where perhaps the autonomous trucks cannot operate in the ports? Or do we get the monster carve out that could come that can’t operate in the Inland Empire because of all the warehouses? Do we get some weird regulatory carve out? ’cause California’s known to do that from various different

Earl Adams Jr.: I’ve I’ve heard that before. Yes. California, I’ve always, you know, whenever I would talk to my, to my team at F-M-C-S-A, we would always say, you know, okay, here’s what we’re gonna do in the country. But then California, you know, you, you have to sort of appreciate that reality. You know, we’re gonna, I’m going to remain optimistic. I’m gonna remain, you know. , very hopeful that we don’t see unnecessary carve outs. , at the same time though, Grayson, the industry can handle whatever, you know, the, the, the state may do when it’s all said. I think the most important thing is that we’re able to do our testing, and we can make the, the, the, the claim and the point that deployment can occur on public roads. I think that the, the market will adjust. Accordingly, if there are carve outs, at the same time, and, you know, and we really haven’t touched on this piece, you know, we know that the, the federal government, hopefully as I said, will, will do. Its do its own, regulatory, framework. And if that occurs, I mean, there’s very, very much a PO possibility of state of preemption, which would mean that, you know, the federal law would preempt any state activity. So, you know, we have to just wait and see, what occurs. But the bottom line is I think that as an industry we can handle it. And, what we’re really just happy about is the fact that California, which is headquartered, to the vast majority of, of the companies that are developing, this new technology, is gonna create a path for us to have our, our trucks, on the road, for testing on deployment.

Grayson Brulte: You could make the argument that California DMV is reading the D Leafs, they understand preemption very well that a federal framework is coming. Are they trying to perhaps get ahead of that? Is that what you think might be happening?

Earl Adams Jr.: So on that one, I love you, and you see conspiracy everywhere. I, I think that this one really may be actually just timing, when it’s all said and done with at the same time, you know, there is something to be said that first mover, but. Ultimately it won’t matter. You know, they can move as quickly as they want. If they, if, uh, if DOT decides, whether it’s fm CSA, or nsa, it’s probably gonna be FMCSA that will put the rule out as opposed to nsa. , you know, if they decide that preemption is the what is best. Preempt and no matter what California has done, you know, that will represent, you know what the feds do represent the California if state permit. But. When it comes to the, the ultimate timing question, it’s important, but it really just depends on what, DOT decides. It believes is the best way of handling the safety issue. And the law is pretty clear, that if, uh, DOT believes that, from a safety standpoint. It is best to have one uniform, standard, then that is what it means. Hours of service is. That’s the example. You can’t have, you know, you don’t get to drive more hours in California than you do in Maryland. , no. There’s actually one federal standard, by which, you know.

Grayson Brulte: The hours of service issues, autonomous trucks, there’s not a human in the truck. It doesn’t get sleepy, it doesn’t get tired, it doesn’t drink lots of coffee to stay awake. Could we see an exemption perhaps come for hours of service for fully autonomous trucks?

Earl Adams Jr.: Well, that’s what it will ultimately be. I mean, the rule by, by implication is going to effectively say that the hours of service, rules do not apply to AV truck. So yes, it, it, it has to, right now, as you know, all of the testing that occurs occurs with a driver, with a safety driver in the cab. And so the hours of service applies to that, to that driver. And when we talk about the efficiencies, we aren’t able to achieve the efficiencies, if you are limiting the hours that the, the truck can operate by virtue of there being a human. So, yeah. Right on. It’s, it’s, that is going to be the effect, is that the hours of service will not apply to, to an AV operated vehicle.

Grayson Brulte: In theory one plus launches from San Antonio to. Dallas with your fleet partners in 2027. is in theory, those trucks could run 24 7 outside of fueling and inspections.

Earl Adams Jr.: That’s correct. That’s correct. And just one, just one, correction. You know, the, the partnership that we are, the, our deployment is through our OEM Partner International. And so it’ll be through international’s, fleet clients, that the, that our AV truck will be operating. But, you know, I, I always just wanna shout out the, that that relationship between, plus and, the traton group and international being its brand here in the us. But yeah, no, when the, the benefit of autonomy is that you are not limited. To the, the human factors, beyond just, you know, the, like you said, the refueling and, \ the, the, the roadside inspections. And frankly, we’re looking at, you know, the industry is looking at that even before, the, the boom for autonomy, you know, level eight inspections that, you know, not to get too much in the weeds, but that is effectively a bypass for trucks to, you know, be able to signal to the station the, the health of the vehicle. Even with a human driver in it. And so, you know, the, that is what we’re looking towards is, is a world where, you know, after that enhanced pre-trip inspection happens, before the truck, departs, it is then on the road and short of needing to refuel, it’s able to continue to move. You are, it still signals through the weigh stations, the health of the vehicle at the same time, even without it signaling to a. The operators will know the health of the vehicle. That’s really, if I can, can, can sort of do an evangelizing moment here Grayson, that’s the benefit and the power, that’s one of the powers of autonomy. Uh, especially as a former safety regulator. You know, all once a safety regulator, always a safety regulator. You know, the idea that, that for the first time that we’re gonna have a. Real time assessment of the health of a commercial vehicle at all times. I mean, that will, we know that that’s gonna have safety benefits. You know, we know that that is going to, you know, prevent the blow, the tire blowout that happens on the side, you know, that happens on the road, which then causes for the truck to, falter, which then leads to, you know, whatever it happens to be. Those things hopefully will, you know, we will see a decrease in them by virtue of this constant monitoring of the health of the vehicle.

Grayson Brulte: The safety implications are going to be enormous. I’ve spoken with several highway officials, highway police officials, and they tell me they love it ’cause they can know the exact condition of the vehicle where, I know it’s controversial, but there’s been talk of putting ’em in human driven trucks and there’s been ultimate pushbacks. So the police are all about getting this data. Do we get to a point where an individual and officer’s going up and down the route on the highway that they can have a beacon in their vehicle or they can know the exact health? Of that truck, is that ever gonna come at some point?

Earl Adams Jr.: I think that that is, you know, it will come the way in which it. Sort of materializes. That’s sort of the, the question. You know, is there a world where every state trooper will be able to push a button and, and assess it? I mean, that may be, but we’re, we’re down the line. I think the first step is, you know, in looking at the established infrastructure that’s being built, so the bypass systems. So, you know, not to, you know, shout out, you know, but we all know the two main companies that are doing the bypass work. You know, I can see a world where they are working with the autonomous, vehicle developers in order to find that integration or just the telematics operators in general, which then will work with. Off the rails now because there, there’s, there’s no plan for this. But I can also see a world where fmcsa, you know, through it, its SAP funds, you know, actually give, you know, funding to states to help build out, you know, that the, the, the network that’s gonna be required in order to, you know, share that data. So that, that is really the hope, over time, that we, we get to a world where there is this constant feedback loop. Is able to, move between the operator and the, the state, the state trooper so that they know what is going on, with the, the health of.

Grayson Brulte: The state troopers going to know the health and that’s gonna build trust. But the other equation of that, what the state trooper’s job is to ensure safety on the road for, for all road users is the public. How is an industry, are you working with your colleagues and your peers to build trust with the public? I ask this all the time, and the number one thing I want, Earl, I’m gonna ask you, can your trucks play the honk game? So when a little kid goes by, he can play the honk game.

Earl Adams Jr.: I will talk to our developers in order to, to see if we can add that as a feature. You know, you, you’re hitting on all the right points, Grayson, I, I said as, former regulator and I now say it as, the vice president policy for regulatory affairs for existential threat. For autonomy is not regulation, it’s actually public acceptance and adoption. And so, I have been so pleased being now on this side of the, of the table on the industry side and, and seeing the commitment that, not only plus has, but all of the companies within this sector have at going out and doing that education. Pave, which is a great organization, you know, that is dedicated C3, to educating the public around, autonomy. You know, we, we are lever, we’re not only talking the talk, we’re walking the walk. And so, you know, the way in which I have done it. Is, you know, as I said, I’m not just limiting my conversations to just elected officials, but I am talking to, you know, any community group that has a question about it, I’m willing to go and to talk to them. You know, I, I sit on panels, really to, to help folks understand. But then beyond the education, it’s the exposure. You’ve got to expose people to the technology as often as possible. , what I’ve observed is that in Austin. Where way are operating, people are, you know, there’s sort of a familiarity. They’re like, oh, yeah, yeah, I see it because they see the cars everywhere. But you compare that to, Maryland, where I live, where, you know, there are no, current operators, uh, AV operators. There’s a totally different discussion around autonomy. It’s this, it’s viewed as this new thing, this scary thing, this unknown thing. And so, you know, what I have, uh, committed to doing, what I’m gonna continue to do, on behalf of Plus, is to going out and not only just trying to educate, but also to create exposure opportunities. And so I’m, uh, you know, so we’re doing demo rides, for individuals, you know, of our trucks. We, we not only do, static. Demonstrations, but we also are saying, Hey, why don’t we find a way, an opportunity for you to get in the, in the truck and you can experience it for yourself? , and because that, that’s what we have to do and it’s gonna be a slow process. I mean, it’s not gonna just, there’s no silver bullet. You know, we’ve gotta go community to community, in order to, to educate and to expose. , and, and I will say this just at the end, that benefits regulatory. Is that it is a signal to the public that the, that, that this, this thing in, in our case, it’s the, autonomous truck has met a baseline of safety. You know, what, what does your driver’s license say? It doesn’t say that you’re, you know, never gonna get into a prep. What it says is that at a baseline, you understand the rules of the, you know, operate. And so. Confidence that creates certainty in people. And so I think that’s another reason why I have been such, I’ve been so bullish on the need for a federal framework because it will signal to the country that, you know, what someone has, has examined and observed what this vehicle does. And there is a baseline of safety that we, that we feel comfortable in certain exists.

Grayson Brulte: What a federal framework does, it says the United States is open for business at the end of the day, that’s what that says is ’cause it’s gonna encourage investment in the sector. It’s gonna give investors certainty that’s gonna unleash large amounts of cash that are gonna be deployed. I wanna stay on the public trust theme here for a minute. You’re going to meeting with local communities. Do you ever get to a point where you go to a school assembly and you have a bring a truck to school day, perhaps, where you invite the children to experience the truck because you can influence the children. They go home and talk to their parents. That’s a really big positive impact there.

Earl Adams Jr.: Grayson, you are right on the city of Austin. They call it a petting zoo where they actually have, the AV operators have, have come and they will, it’s a static display of the vehicle, so that folks can come and just pet it. And can get in and climb around. Now, that’s not the same as driving. I’ll be honest with you, when the demo rides that we do will not include children, unfortunately we can’t, we can’t do that from a liability standpoint. But, you know, but yes, I, I think that that is exactly what ha that’s what I mean by, by exposure. You know, that we’ve got to. Create opportunities for people to experience and to interact with the truck. One random, if I can give you one random story, I don’t, don’t want to go too far afield, but, there actually, I, I had the occasion to go out and to, to ride in a Waymo and granite, you know, not necessarily, you know, it’s not trucks, but, you know, I, it was my first time, in one, in, in this new role and I took a video of it. And went home and showed I have a 13 and 14-year-old sons and showed it to them and they were like, oh yeah, of course it makes perfect sense that the, the car would be driving itself. I then showed it to my wife and I, I said, Hey, you know what? We should, maybe next time around in San Fran or, or, you know, LA we can, get him on. And she looked at me, she said, oh no, I’m not doing that. I said, what do you mean? I said, you know, this is what I do. She says, no, that’s what you do. That’s what I necessarily do. So my point is just that there is this generational divide. And, and you are correct that, uh, that young folks, it is a total. It makes perfect sense for them, because of whether it’s video games or however, VR you know, this, this is something that they’re very comfortable with. And so I don’t necessarily know if we have to, all we have to do is just continue to engage them. It’s, it’s really us old fogies, that we’ve got to, is just to engage with it. So that’s why, you know, when I. You know, it’s, it’s our peer group to get them to understand the, the benefits that can flow and frankly the safety benefits, which are, is what my wife is most concerned about is as all parents are. , you know, and just, just explain to them, you know, how these vehicles are safe. But it was very telling to me that my kids, of course I’m gonna do it tomorrow. My, my wife, you know, not as much. So,

Grayson Brulte: The children are, are growing up with it. Unfortunately, children are growing up with iPhones. We see the negative effects of that, but the children growing up with, with automation and autonomy, we’re seeing the positive benefits of that. the way that you convert an adult, they have one or two bad Uber rides and never want to go in an Uber again. ’cause the, the way that the driver does. We were in an Uber a couple weeks ago and this guy thought he wanted to, it was Mario playing Mario Kar, what are you doing? Then he said a few, uh, I can’t say it here on the podcast. A few four letter words, get, you know, outta my car. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We don’t need to go a hundred on there. I reported to Uber, they didn’t gimme a credit. So Uber, I know you listen, you gotta look into that. The, the speeding issues there. That aside, getting back to trucking, Earl Autonomous Trucking. Is a special, special industry. Nobody’s competing on safety. Everybody’s working towards a common goal of getting a national framework, deploying this technology in, in a meaningful, positive way, and not taking shortcuts. Why is that?

Earl Adams Jr.: It’s because trucking as an industry is the most, is one of the most. Regulated industries that exist. So whether there’s a driver or not that truck, it, it, it, you know, whether it’s, it, it is monitoring, there’s the monitoring of both the health of the driver and the truck at every level of the, of, of, of the chain, if you will. Um, you know, the truck itself before it leaves, it is inspected while it is operating. It is inspected. Once it stops, it is inspected. There is a constant, review and engagement, and I think that it’s because of the nature of this industry, which has existed for a hundred years in the us. You know, that question is a non-question for those of us in the industry. We are always, we are not gonna compete on that. We, there’s no, benefit at all to a, an incident happening. That happens to one, happens to all of us. And so we all are, I think there’s perfect alignment. Within the sector that we all need to be moving and pushing in the same direction. And frankly, Grayson, I think that’s, that’s the real benefit to this use case of autonomy. You know, and, and this is not to knock the other use cases, but I think that when you, when we really think, when we really look at the long-term efficacy and benefits that can flow the over the road trucking. Is one that is just, it’s an obvious one. And in particular because of the well-established safety framework that it already exists for trucks, even when there’s a human driver. And all we are doing now from an autonomous standpoint is taking that existing framework and we are building on it in order to create an even safer ecosystem and a more, beneficial ecosystem. So that’s a, it’s, it’s a really unique aspect of. Of trucking. And I, and I do think, as I said, that that’s why it is such a prime, case for autonomy.

Grayson Brulte: The interesting thing about your yourself role you’ve experience from the government side as the former chief counsel and deputy. Ministry of F-M-C-S-A, and now you have it from the industry side as the the VP for policy and regulatory affairs at plus. Since you’ve joined Plus and you’ve joined the industry, H how, how has your thought changed? Have you had any different thoughts on this industry now that you’re in the industry and you’re no longer in the government role?

Earl Adams Jr.: I wouldn’t, it’s not necessarily, things have changed. In fact, I have been reassured sometimes, you know, as a government official, especially a regulator, you. Pretty much, you know, people are gonna tell you what they think you want to hear, you know, because no one’s gonna go to their regulator and say, oh, lemme tell you what we’re, what we’re really doing. You know? All the ways that we’re finding ways of, you know, evading your rules, no one’s gonna do that. So, so all of my conversations were usually very positive. The most reassuring and gratifying, thing that I have experienced since coming to Plus is to find out that. There, there is no second message. It is exactly the same thing that what they said they were doing is what they are doing. And, and, and that’s not only a credit to plus, but it’s a credit to all of the companies, I think, within the AV space. So that is, that has been a very reassuring, experience for me. You know, as I have joined this other side of, yeah, as I’ve joined, joined industry side of it.

Grayson Brulte: It’s had to bolster your confidence.

Earl Adams Jr.: without a doubt, without a doubt, without a doubt. , I was already very, as, as I laid out because of the nature of, of trucking and the, the regulations that we see there. I was always very confident that, that, that. Trucking could safely operate autonomously. So there was never any question in my mind about that. What I have now seen by virtue of being on the other side is it’s also now it’s built in within the culture. Of these companies and, and so, you know, that is even more reassuring, by virtue of now being a part of the team and seeing first and foremost that safety is always on the mind of every engineer, of every, operator within our, within our organization at Plus. And I do, and again, this is one of those moments where, you know, we don’t need to, leave anyone out. I think that it’s probably true of all of the companies within the.

Grayson Brulte: It gives you more credibility when you go back and meet with F-M-C-S-A because you were in that seat and now you’re in this seat. And you, you have that confidence, which is really healthy, and then you share those learnings with the rest of the industry because the autonomous trucking industry doesn’t compete on policy, doesn’t compete on safety. They want to do what’s right for the American public. They want to do what’s right for the economy, and they, they want to create jobs and save lives. And that’s what the technology is gonna do. It’s gonna have a very, very positive impact this technology operates. Earl, this has been fun, sir. We dived into all things. Policy as we look to wrap up this insightful conversation, what would you like our listeners and viewers to take away with them today?

Earl Adams Jr.: Well, Jason, thank you so much again for the opportunity. I always enjoyed talking to you. You, you asked, like I said, you asked the right questions and you’re thinking about the right issues. I think the number one thing that, my evangelism that I, that I do when I’m talking to folks, is to, to respect that, you know, the future is now that there are going to be benefits, know that these benefits are real, safety, efficiency, economic, and that, you know, at the same time we have to appreciate. That it’s gonna take time. , you know that this is not gonna be overnight. As I said, we’re not gonna go from one truck to 700,000 trucks, uh, overnight. That’s not gonna how it’s gonna occur. And so in, in that, in that spirit, you know, I think that, that from the general public is to appreciate that there will be a gradual, growth, periods for purposes of. From the investor side, it’s knowing that these use cases are real, that they’re legitimate, they’re the, that the benefits themselves are, are, are, are valid and are gonna continue to just get better over time. And then from the policy perspective, from the policy and regulator perspective, know that this industry is just as committed, to safety, to the safe deployment of this technology as they’re, and so we need to find ways of working together and cooperating as often as possible. So, you know, it’s three different messages for three different groups, but I think at the core they all come back to the same thing. And that is that autonomy is a good, is a good thing. And you know, we we’re all sort of committed to seeing it deploy, as safely and as efficiently as.

Grayson Brulte: Autonomy is good for the economy. It’s gonna usher in what I call the autonomy economy, and plus it’ll be a backbone of the autonomy economy as they scale their operations in multiple states while creating jobs and making our roads. Safer. The future is bright. The future is autonomous. The future is plus. Earl, thank you so much for coming on the road to autonomy today.

Earl Adams Jr.: Friend. Thank you, Grayson. Have a good, have a good one. And thanks to all your listeners.